SH: Yeah, exactly. It's also hard to be like: ‘yeah, I'm in a new band’. I'm still making music, but I'm also having to start from the ground floor, back up.

RC: Which I'd imagine has been part of the satisfaction. Has that been satisfying to feel like there's a return? Like you're Sisyphus, the boulder's back at the bottom of the hill, and you're pushing it up again.

SH: It's cool because it's a fresh slate, you know, and Reaper’s Gong has been a band now at this point for almost… I think we started in 2021 into 2020, something like that. But it was like… I was so busy with Full of Hell and with COVID and everything that we couldn't really hit the ground running. So, it's been slow. It's been a side project, but it's now being realized as my main musical project. So that's been satisfying, to be able to put all my heart and focus into this. But the music is so different from Full of Hell. It's nice to play something that's still extreme, but not the most, like… it's not me trying to make the most extreme thing in the world.

RC: Yeah. Which I'd imagine is a transition that can come naturally over time and also feed into other things. I was wondering about what this recording process has been like for you, because you're working on new material. Initially I'm wondering what's been going well. What's been exciting? Secondarily if, because the sound of this band is so different, you're fighting habits, being a guitarist and having your hands do a certain thing.

SH: I think because in the last couple years I've been taking more interest in stuff that's not necessarily extreme metal… I've been mainly taking sounds that are more relatable to Reaper’s Gong and trying to work them into Full of Hell’s sound. So it's kind of become---not become---it was a pretty easy transition, especially too, there’s the caveat of: there's no blast beats in this band. I don't have to come up with ‘metal’ riffs as far as writing and stuff goes. The last Full of Hell record was actually supposed to be a Reaper’s Gong record, Broken Sword [Broken Sword, Rotten Shield]. And we had a major lineup change in Reaper’s Gong and we were supposed to go and record, but once we had this major lineup change I was just like… let's scrap what we have and kind of start anew.

---But there's a couple songs from that writing process that were like: I don't want these songs to die, but they're not going to fit with Reaper's Gong anymore. That's why I was able to mold them into Full of Hell songs. But as far as Reaper’s Gong, we came up with a new lineup change and it was a thing where once we started writing with this new lineup, I was like: why don't we, still kind of keep (somewhat) our original sound from our first couple tapes and demos, but try to push it more just “straight up noise rock”, and less punk and hardcore influence. So that's where Euphoric Purification came from is we wanted a more Swans type sound. With these new songs that we just recorded, one of the songs we've been playing live for about six months, and that's not going to be on the release… that's going to be used for something else.

But these songs, I think they're becoming… as a band, we're becoming more realized and more focused on what our influences are and what our sound is---instead of trying to still figure that out and get our legs underneath us.

RC: Do you have a listening diet that you either find yourself gravitating towards or that you try to listen to when you're working on this material?

SH: I like that. That's the thing with doing Full of Hell for so long, I got so burned out from being around music all the time. And it's still a situation where I'm like: I've never not been around music constantly, but it got to the point where I was just like… I don't even feel like listening to music. And I would say within the last year, I finally have been able to sit down and enjoy listening to music again. ---Enjoy reading about music, enjoy watching interviews and documentaries. That's very refreshing to me because it was at the point where I didn't want to listen to anything, you know. So I guess now there's not necessarily, like… I don't put on a record and am like: ‘I want to sound like this band or this band or this band’ kind of thing. But there is a core group of bands I find myself gravitating towards that I've listened to for years. And I feel like that's just naturally rubbing off, from me listening to those bands: Sonic Youth, Swans, Harvey Milk, Melvins, stuff like that. That's just naturally rubbing off onto our new stuff and our influences.

RC: Yeah, well that's going to be exciting to hear. And it definitely is my impression with a lot of the Reaper's Gong stuff that there's some sculpting with noise in there. And I know in Full of Hell you've done a little bit of that too---but it hasn't been incorporated into the songwriting in the same way. I'm wondering if we can expect some more of that use of distortion and static stuff---and if so, how that's different from writing ‘riffs’, per se. You know what I mean?

SH: Yeah… with Full of Hell, it was kind of just like: there wasn't much space for stuff because it was just riff after riff after riff, so there wasn't room to breathe. And also with Full of Hell's noise elements, I liked looking at it more as using outside electronics because we would always have synths and little, like, pedals and noise devices and stuff like that. And there, of course, was guitar noise and feedback and stuff like that. But with Reaper’s Gong, going back to the Sonic Youth aspect of it: just using our guitars as the noise element. So it's like you’re saying, like: oh, is the noise element going to counteract the riff? And there are moments even in these new songs that we recorded where it's just the riff… the riff is us, you know, banging on our guitars, scratching on our guitars, stuff like that. Filling in the space for the void of what could be another guitar part.

RC: Yeah, for sure. That's what I would anticipate. And I think that that will be exciting new territory for listeners. Also, too, I think that there is a… when you're playing the super dense grindcore stuff, there is a technical trade-off. It was always my perception during Full of Hell shows that some of the noise stuff was a transitional element in the live shows as much as it was anything else. Largely because if you're playing with equipment that's going to help you stay that tight and play riffs that are that fast, it's like: okay, well, maybe it's harder to fit in some of the more chaotic feedback into the songwriting---in the ways that it sounds like you're doing now.

SH: Yeah. And also too, the noise elements---like, you're saying---with the ‘chaotic’ of it, I was able to fill a void and give us a break instead of… you see some grind bands where they just play the song that's like twenty-five seconds long, then stop, then play the next one and stop. We never wanted to do that. Like, yeah, there were some times where we would stop so Dylan could address the crowd or whatever, but it was mainly like: let's make it one big flowing set without stopping. But, yeah, definitely we're still doing that with Reaper's Gong, where we're still trying to make it flow as one set. But we also, like I just said, are using the noise of the feedback as actual structure of the songs.

RC: I know what you mean. And I think coming back to what you were saying about weariness with music… And that just being the paradox of being a working artist, that it's a labor of love and it can be something that a person is attached to out of passion that ultimately becomes rote in some way. I'm wondering if you were having any physical repercussions for playing music so fast.

SH: The only issue I ever had was with my picking hand. My thumb would lock up sometimes. I never had carpal tunnel in my fretting hand. It was always just from, I guess, the intensity and not paying---because it is hard to pay attention---and adrenaline and nerves that I'm holding down on the pick so much that my joint would just lock. And then, if the pick would slip, I would not be able to adjust my fingers, to re-catch the pick. So that still happens a little bit to me, but definitely not as bad---because I'm definitely strumming in a different way for what I'm doing now, music-wise. So.

RC: Yeah… do you adjust your pick grip or is it just a different overall tempo?

SH: It's just a different overall tempo. And I don't have to use so much wrist strength. I can more use my elbow as a strumming pattern. Almost like someone uses it playing an acoustic guitar, where there's big sweeps to pick the guitar, instead of being laser-focused-precise with the more extreme metal stuff.

RC: And it does just get more and more… devastating. But then the anger is good… it's good for making art too. So, I think---I don't know---in my experience, I always prefer to err more on the side of doing the slop that I loathe, because then if things go well I can convert the anger into something meaningful. ---But that can feel tiring too. So it's a balance to strike and it's always, always, something to negotiate. Sometimes, too, those labor jobs are good in creative life because they of course consume your body---but your mind is free to wander. When I'm doing that kind of work, I always find myself scheming about my other projects and I'll even, you know---you mentioned enjoying listening to music---I've had, you know, long days of doing construction or something where those have been some of my more sublime experiences of feeling like I'm able to really focus on enjoying someone else's art while my own hands are occupied.

SH: Yeah. And I haven't done it in a couple years, but I had my Industrial Hazard solo noise project and being around heavy machinery and cement mixers and, you know, forklifts and tractors and stuff like that definitely gave me ideas and inspiration for that project.

RC: When you’re working on your music, do you ever find yourself inspired by something unexpected, like a film or a book or something non-musical? Do you ever derive inspiration from those sources?

SH: Not necessarily. It's another ‘double-edged sword’ thing where I was just like: even in the last couple years I've not been able to enjoy reading a book because I've never been a person that's like ‘into fiction’. I've always mainly read musicians’ books or memoirs, and stuff like that. I just haven't really been in the mindset to read or anything. ---But this past year I've definitely collected books and have started making more of a list of: ‘I need to read this book, and read this book’. But I've never really been, like, taking art in that sense and using it for my own purposes. It's mainly just listening to a band or reading about a band or something that will spark my need to try to come up with something.

RC: Whose work have you read that you've particularly related to out of other musicians? Has anyone guided you in your own path?

SH: I mean, definitely first touring with Full of Hell when it was super slumming it DIY, we always had a Get in the Van by Henry Rollins with us and just reading, you know, how Black Flag would suffer for so many years and it was just a cathartic read to be like: okay, this isn't a lone thing. Everybody has to eat shit before they get to the top.

RC: Yeah, everybody's got to work at Haagen-Dazs.

SH: Yeah. Just sleeping in the van or just, you know, showing up to a show and no-one, like: ‘the show's not actually happening’ and stuff like that.

RC: Were there early shows where you guys, in Full of Hell, received a particularly adverse reaction to what you were doing?

SH: I mean, it wasn't even early on. There's just, you know, because we did so much diverse touring. And that was the goal: was to do diverse touring---to spread, you know. You know, you can't just keep preaching to the choir. You’ve got to play to different bands and stuff like that. So we definitely had, like, people flipping us off and spitting at us and throwing stuff at us, you know. Especially particularly brutal on the… when we did the Cavalera tour where they were playing, like, Roots, you know. It'd been cool to do the Beneath the Remains tour---but we were doing, like, the new metal record, so we were just getting thrown at and people yelling (that) we suck, and stuff like that. But that's just part of growing as a band.

RC: And that's the thing with metal too, is it? I mean, like, anything extreme, it encompasses a pretty wide political spectrum. Not that it's all, you know, has to be politically oriented, but there is this phenomenon of: you assume we're all mad for the same reason, and then sometimes you show up somewhere and you're like, ‘oh, maybe not’.

SH: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

RC: How did you feel when the people spat on you? Did it shake your faith?

SH: I mean, there were some times where it was just like: you're trying to play and then you see a cup of beer, like, being launched from the back of the room towards you, and you're just like: ah, man, what the? So, you know, it's like: you gotta persevere through it. But also, too, at the same time, it is pretty disheartening to get on stage and try to play what you created and just have people telling you you suck.

RC: Yeah, of course. With that: it is interesting to me that you mentioned that Broken Sword was not intended to be a Full of Hell record, because in a lot of ways, it seems like it was a farewell. I mean, it was a farewell in a lot of ways. It was your last record with Full of Hell. And it was a memorial for your dog, if I'm not mistaken.

SH: Yep.

RC: I'd love to hear some more about that. What was that process like: as saying goodbye to your dog, having it be the last Full of Hell record? What was that like: to part ways?

SH: I mean, that was just like: initially, I came up with the concept for the artwork because I looked at some of the Swans and Angels of Light records where there's the humanized animals. I forget the exact---‘anamorphic’, or whatever they call it.

RC: Yeah.

RC: Yeah, of course. And I think it definitely works; it feels like it's a continuation of a lot of the work you were doing with Full of Hell before.

SH: Yeah, yeah. That's what it's like. That's why when it became the point of being like: ‘should we just throw these songs away’? That's when I was just like, ‘no, I think I can mold them’---to fit what we were doing with songs off Coagulated and even a song like Reeking Tunnels or something like that. But the future of Reaper's Gong was so up in the air at that point. You know, like I said: I like those songs so much. I was like: I just don't want them to get thrown away.

RC: How are you feeling about the new Reapers Gong lineup? It seems like it's been exciting for you, and the presence has been good, and you've got that Dunable (guitar) now so that's always a good thing, apparently.

SH: Yeah. I mean, it's good, like, you know… it became a situation with Full of Hell. It was almost like a marriage because, you know, we were together for almost seventeen years. And it got to the point where I was just like: our lives went into different trajectories, so we didn't really hang out or whatever. It's nice to be in a band that's still fresh where, you know, we actually hang out and collaborate. And the writing process is just totally different. ---Whereas, you know, I was the only guitar player in Full of Hell for so long that I would come up with all the songs and then bring them to practice. Now, with the new lineup of Reaper's Gong, it was two guitars almost immediately. So now I have someone to collaborate with.

So, yeah, I'll bring some riff ideas or song ideas to band practice---but we actually sit in the room together and grind it out. Compared to Full of Hell, me bringing the song and being like, ‘okay, this section, let's have blast beats, this section, let's have a DB let's have the song be a sludge song, this song’, etcetera. It's just a completely different process. And, you know, I get to turn off my brain a little bit, and that's also too like, even when I was doing Eye Flies, I liked doing that because I would come up with riffs some of the time, but most of the time it was the drummer who was writing all the riffs. So it was a completely different mindset that actually helped and influenced how I would write songs around that time period---for Full of Hell. So it's like, like I said, it's very refreshing to be able to change my mind or twist my mind a little bit, to make it more of a collaborative effort.

RC: That's really how music is, at least in my experience, is that it's necessary to have that resistance. And of course too much can tear a project apart, but it's good. It's good to have a sort of healthy tension between people, because it's important to break out of one's patterns. That's where some of the growth happens, I think.

SH: Yeah, just like with Full of Hell, you know, I was kind of starting to get burned out a little bit of writer's block just because it was to the point where I was just like, you know: ‘I can't constantly bring song ideas to the table’. Where it's like---like I said---this band, I can bring one or two ideas and the drummer will be like, ‘well, we should do it this way’. And I'm showing the guitar player riffs and he's showing me riffs, and back and forth, and etcetera.

RC: Yeah, that's exciting and a different dynamic. Are there other ways you feel like the band dynamics are different with Reaper’s Gong?

SH: Yeah, just completely different personality wise. And it's also refreshing being… I mean, of course, Full of Hell started out not being a professional band, obviously---but it also, too, is refreshing being in a band where these guys have all played music forever in different bands, but they’ve mainly stayed regional type. So it's exciting to be able to spread our wings and have new people that are excited that, you know, I'm talking to this label, or being like: oh, I got us a show here.

RC: Yeah. And it's just practically useful to have everyone based closer together, right?

SH: Yeah, yeah. We're all like… furthest someone away is like, maybe half an hour away. So it's compared to hours.

RC: Well, that's very exciting stuff and I'm certainly incredibly excited to hear more about your journey and see what you guys do. That's about all I've got for you today, Mr. Spencer.

SH: Thanks, man.

RC: It's been a pleasure. Always good chatting and I'm wishing you the best.

(……) 

Reaper’s Gong is beginning their first tour of the East Coast on June 25th. Their new single, ‘Sunslashed’, is available on Bandcamp and major streaming platforms.